Interviewed by Lucy Lawson and Nadège Serrero

Meet our Member, Anne Houtman, Lecturer at Sciences Po Paris. In this interview with her, she talks to us about the challenges in the EU reaching climate neutrality by 2050, the difference between leadership and management, as well as the importance of having more women in visible positions.

The last time we interviewed you, in 2012, you were Head of the European Commission Representation in Paris, after which you became Principal Advisor in the Directorate General for Energy in the European Commission. Today, you are a lecturer at Sciences Po Paris and a Member of the Royal Academy of Belgium, specialised in European Energy policy. In which sector - pubic or academic - do you believe you have been able to make the greatest difference to advancing understanding of European policy goals, and where do you expect to go next?

I will start by answering the final part of this question, as it is easier. I believe that I have been very lucky, and now also in relation to the COVID-19 pandemic. I am very curious by nature: I love reading, sharing ideas, discussing, and exchanging opinions. I am very busy with these tasks and they make me feel content and fulfilled. I also have more time to dedicate myself to reflecting and communicating since I no longer have the administrative tasks to do which occupied much of my time in my roles at the European Commission. I feel very blessed, and privileged, to be in this position - it is because of this that I feel optimistic about the future.

The next part of the question is not as easy to respond to. We are talking about completely different audiences to which I am pitching my knowledge and ideas. In my role as Head of the European Commission Representation in Paris, I was the voice, eyes, and ears of Europe for the whole of France. In this role, the first major challenge was the breadth of subjects on which we had to communicate – from immigration, to fishing regulations. You cannot claim to be an expert on everything, so you must acknowledge this and remain humble and modest. The role also included communicating policy to the whole of France – which is a pretty big country! When fulfilling this goal, one of the biggest challenges was conveying the message from Brussels, formulated to be addressed to 27 - and later 28 - member states, in a way which speaks to each region and community in France. Occasionally when you communicate these messages, the message gets misunderstood. To give an example, the notion of public service changes from one member state to another. In some countries, public services do not function very well and thus have a bad reputation; in others, public services are cherished. In some countries, public services are centralised, like in France – whereas in Germany, they operate on a more localised level. Therefore, in this role, it is important to read and re-interpret the message based on your audience.

The second challenge relates to grabbing the attention of your audience. It is easy to appeal to those who are already interested in European Affairs and are convinced of the benefits of a European Union. The difficulty is reaching out to those who do not want to hear about Europe. In this role, you need to understand where people stand and accept that whilst people may hold a very different opinion to your own, you still need to work with them. You must separate this lack of agreement from a lack of understanding of the issue and deliver the information without lecturing people. The communication in this role requires striking a very fine balance.

My experience as Head of the European Commission Representation in Paris contrasts completely with that of being a member of the Royal Academy of Belgium since, in this position, I am amongst peers with a wide range of backgrounds. I am a member of this Academy as a mathematician; yet I find myself surrounded by lawyers, economists, architects, scientists, engineers, and experts from many other fields. This role comes with its own set of challenges. Everyone is a high-ranking specialist in their field, but we all come from different areas, which means we must try and communicate with people from very different backgrounds and professions.

This role also contrasts with my position at Sciences Po, where I teach a class of 25 students. These students all come from completely different backgrounds; Chinese, German, French, and more. Thus, the challenge in this role is being able to communicate in a way which resonates with all the different experiences of the students. I have students who come from backgrounds where EU institutions have always been present in their country, and others who have had no experience with the EU. Therefore, I really have to gauge how much they need to know in order to understand my class and how to communicate my syllabus in the most engaging and effective way.

Throughout the public and academic sector, one challenge remains constant: understanding who my audience is, what they want to learn, and creating my message in relation to this.

Since I was a child, my goal was to be a professor. When I was 12 years old, I would stand up on blackboards and explain concepts to the other children in my class. I made all my pocket money by tutoring younger students in Maths, Physics, even French. I have a real passion for educating; it is what I love doing. I also loved my time at the EU Commission. I feel incredibly lucky to have worked there, as it is a place where you can really change things, even when you are not at the top level. You can formulate ideas, push them, and see them take shape after a few years.

Throughout the public and academic sector, 
one challenge remains constant:
understanding who my audience is,
what they want to learn, and creating
my message in relation to this.

The European Union (EU) has committed to becoming the first carbon-neutral continent by 2050, an objective which is at the heart of the European Green Deal, which we debated in a high-level WIL Europe event in October 2020. Is the EU’s objective a realistic one and what needs to happen to get us there?

I believe we shouldn’t be asking whether it is realistic: it is necessary to limit global warming to 1.5°C. It is of the upmost necessity to push this objective. We have already seen some effects of climate change, and scientific evidence tells us to do everything in our power to limit these changes and to be carbon neutral by mid-century at the latest to reach this objective. What we are looking at here is the question of the planet’s survival and thus our survival, so we must not ponder if it is realistic – we must just do it and act fast.

This objective is certainly attainable, but it will be incredibly difficult. It requires completely changing the way the economy is functioning, the way we as citizens behave and consume, the way enterprises conceive their products, and the way all of this can fit into a circular economy. We must reset our way of thinking and producing. It also requires the work of public authorities in implementing different policies and regulations on both an EU, national and local level.

Whilst the task is daunting, it is also exciting. Never in the history of humanity have we been in front of something so existential for humanity. I believe the European Green Deal proposes an exciting transformation. If we do it well, it will bring us a better world with more meaningful cooperation.

What we are looking at here
is the question of the planet’s survival,
so we must not ponder if it is realistic
– we must just do it ad act fast.

In 2019, hundreds of thousands of young people across the world took to the streets to protest the inaction of governments on the climate crisis. What is your analysis of the impact of these protests on global thinking and action on climate change, and do you think these protests will set a long-term trend for young people’s engagement in policy and politics?

I am not a sociologist nor a policy analyst, but what I can give you is my own understanding. The first thing that strikes me is that there is a notable dissonance between what people believe in, and know to be right, and how they act in their daily life. We all know that we should use our cars less – but do we do this? Not always.

When we consider these young people, who may be moving into policy-making positions, the changes they can make depend on their personality. People are very diverse in nature: there are some young people who are very idealistic and may become frustrated if changes do not happen almost instantaneously. This may result in them becoming very angry at politics in general, since they can see a better world and future in sight, but they see no change. On the other hand, there are young people who analyse what should and could be done, and this constitutes a very different attitude. When you realise how hard it is to change reality, you are either frustrated at the complexity and obstacles or excited by the prospect of the challenge. This spectrum of responses can make working in policy a difficult experience depending on your personal traits.

An example that I would use to demonstrate this is the phasing out of coal. We all know that we should get rid of coal as soon as possible. However, if we look for example at regions such as Silesia in the south of Poland, we realise that coal is integral to the profession of thousands of miners. Coal is also used in Silesia to heat homes, to produce electricity and in many other economic activities. How do you change this system to function without coal? These activities come with jobs and assets, so the social and economic impactsare huge. This shows that, when you start to unpack the reality of these changes, you realise that you must confront an idealistic vision with a harsh reality. Not everyone is prepared to face the discontentment that will come from allowing this transition. You must ask yourself: do I have the strength, the empathy, and the imagination to create alternatives, and does this prospect excite me?

You participated in last year’s WIL Women in Talent Pool leadership programme as a Career Development leader, working with a small group of our talents to hone their leadership skills. How would you define ‘leadership’?

I believe that leadership is very different to management. You can have leadership in any position in the hierarchy. What you need to be a leader is a vision of where you want people to go to with you. You need a clear direction to get people to work with you, and then you need the quality of inspiring people. Inspiring people requires empathy, as they need to feel an emotion which gives them a desire to work with you. This is a key difference between management and leadership – you can manage by authority, but you cannot lead by authority as it destroys the empathetic aspect of leadership. However, being a good leader does not always mean being a good person. Hitler and Mussolini were great leaders, but terrible people. They did, however, have a clear vision and the ability to inspire others.

Becoming a good leader requires working on yourself and understanding your motivations deeply, as it is with these motivations that you will be able to inspire people. You also need to like people; not every leader generates a real love, but they can generate a certain empathy and find themselves surrounded by people who will follow them.

Becoming a good leader requires
working on yourself and understanding
your motivations deeply,
as it is with these motivations that
you will be able to inspire people.

How in your view can mentoring and other programmes help to empower emerging leaders, particularly women, and what else can be done to achieve gender parity in leadership positions in Europe?

I believe that coaching is sometimes understood as being a way to climb the steps faster in your career to achieve a higher position. I would disagree with this perception: we do not coach women to create an army of women ready to take the top posts. There is only one CEO, one Prime Minister; there are not that many high-ranking positions and not everyone is made to fill these positions. As I said earlier, learning to be a good leader is so much more than your rank. You can manage by authority and organisation, but this is not the same as leadership. Management is a skill which you learn, whereas leadership is a journey of self-development and understanding.

In coaching, I help women understand who they are, what they want in life, their limits, their inner power, their inner confidence, and how to build upon all these elements. The work on leadership comes from within yourself. When I myself was being coached on leadership, the best sessions I had were when the coach identified something about me of which I wasn’t aware and hadn’t understood about myself before. This is why I love coaching small groups, because you can really work with the person and create a mirror to help them discover themselves.

Some people are natural leaders; becoming a leader is easier for them given their inherent qualities and the environment of their upbringing. An upbringing where you have been supported to grow independently helps this development I believe. Everyone has a different starting point in their journey to leadership. I believe that everyone can become a leader, but it is easier for some than others.

To respond to the question “what else can be done to achieve gender parity in leadership positions in Europe”, I would say that we definitely need more women in visible positions. I think that change begins with women talking – be it in debates, events and so forth. Many organisers claim that they cannot find women, so I believe that we must create tools such as databases to avoid this. Furthermore, we cannot promote the cause of women if we do not change the perceptions of men. How men perceive women in both the professional and private sphere is integral to change. If some men believe a woman should stay home to clean and raise children, we cannot change this perception by talking to women only. We are not working against men; they have everything to gain by creating empowered women. And life in the office is not the dream for all men. Creating women who want to work would allow more men to stay at home should they wish. I want men to feel more comfortable in having this desire, and to realise their right to stay home should they want this.

We cannot promote the cause of women
if we do not change the perceptions of men.

I also believe that all women are in very different situations. In certain cultures, women have much more complicated situations. I feel privileged that I already have a freer mindset where I feel able to progress in life, and I know that this is not the case for all women. The challenge is often reaching these women. We know the women who surround us, and these are the privileged ones. Thus, the question is, how do we reach and understand the stories of women who are more tightly bound to the family system? The answer is collaboration with local associative systems who know these neighbourhoods, and we cannot do all this work from an office in Brussels. We need to develop a more open network and adopt an open perspective. Furthermore, we must also face up to the reality that this is an enormous task; the goal is visible but far in the future. This means we must also celebrate each little win we get along the way.

We like to finish our interviews with a question from the Proust questionnaire. Your chosen question is: Which words or phrases do you most overuse?

“I don’t know”. I always say this when I react to questions. I begin by saying “I don’t know”, and then I start to piece together my thoughts to come up with a response. I don’t claim to be a specialist in everything or to have a big or final answer. That is why I think I overuse this phrase. I would say I should replace this with “I don’t know... But I want to know!”.

Interviewed by Lucy Lawson and Nadège Serrero

Meet our Member and Board Member, Enrica Acuto Jacobacci, CEO, Deputy Chair and Managing Director of Jacobacci & Partners in Italy. In this interview, we discuss with her the future of intellectual property in the EU, as well as the importance of education and fostering diverse representation within companies.

You are CEO, Deputy Chair and Managing Director of Jacobacci & Partners, a European agency focused on the protection of intellectual property. Tell us more about the organisation, your role, and what you enjoy most about it.

Jacobacci & Partners was founded almost 150 years ago as a professional Intellectual Property (IP) firm. In the last 15 years it has evolved into a large international Group with 14 offices in Europe. I currently cover various senior positions within the companies which make up the group. After a few years of focusing on the integration of our international acquisitions, this last year my focus is more on Italy, especially because of the pandemic situation, which is our biggest and most important operation.

Just before the pandemic hit, I created a new Executive Committee composed of eight people, including myself, who have been actively involved and helped me in finding the right balance between our employees’ wellbeing and our clients’ needs all throughout the year.

As an Executive Committee, we share this and other responsibilities by interacting in a way which makes the most of – and respects –the different skills which we bring to the table. We are all actively involved in the management of corporate strategies and have the common goal of putting into practice all the necessary actions to ensure the smooth running of the company. I am very grateful to have such an amazing and collaborative team.

I am personally a great advocate of shared leadership in the company. This is not just an organisational issue but one of managerial culture, and it is an approach which helps everyone to go above and beyond. Shared leadership ensures the distribution of decision-making processes and responsibilities amongst managers. Thus, by adopting this structure, I have been able to preserve what I like the most in my role – that of vision, coordination, and strategic management. It allows us as a team to keep the right perspective and a common and shared line of action.

The concept of intellectual property has evolved since Jacobacci & Partners was first established in 1872 and it wasn’t until the late 20^th century that the concept became widespread in legislation across the globe. What are intellectual property rights, and why is having a strong and fair intellectual property regime so important for developing a thriving creative economy?

Intellectual property has always delt with innovation - and we need innovation now more than ever.

In the past, entrepreneurial success was more defined by its capacity to aggregate several factors. Nowadays, however, everything starts from ideas. We must protect these ideas, and ideals, especially as it is becoming increasingly common for entrepreneurs to do business with the aim of improving the world. 

We must protect these ideas, and ideals,
especially as it becoming increasingly common
for entrepreneurs to do business
with the aim of improving the world.

What Jacobacci does, and has always done, is to help entrepreneurs protect and define their ideas in the best possible way, so that their project can become something which has an impact on the market. Jacobacci’s job is to support entrepreneurs and IP managers as they learn more about the market and the importance of protecting their ideas. We employ several tools to protect intellectual property: patent, design and copyright to name a few. Jacobacci helps select the best protection tool in relation to the needs and type of idea which our clients present to us. However, when working with IP, one must keep in mind that the right to protection is temporary, because in the long term every innovation must become advantageous to a larger number of people, and this is part of the deal.

IP protection tools can also become business tools; for example, the owner can make his idea available to others in the form of a licence or can sell the patent itself. This flexibility is a big part of the open innovation dynamic which Jacobacci has chosen for its customers – this approach is excellent for evaluating new ways of accelerating our clients’ growth.

From a worldwide perspective, we can see that the IP market is still growing, both in emerging markets and in mature markets. We are witnessing a large change in the tools which are being employed to protect IP; there is a great deal of structural turbulence in the system, and this constant evolution is a historical moment. The good thing about IP is that you are always on the edge; you never miss what is going on and it is quite exciting. We must monitor these new emerging trends and adapt to them very quickly so that we can help entrepreneurs and IP managers to continually find new solutions. Time is of the essence with IP. This has been especially true during the pandemic, since patents have had to be filled quickly due to the increasing amounts of new products being launched. Our company was really under stress for most of 2020, but I am very proud of my team for having managed the situation and ended the year on a great note.

The good thing about IP is that
you are always on the edge,
you never miss what is going on
and it is quite exciting.

The European Union’s (EU) Lisbon agenda committed the EU to becoming the most dynamic and competitive knowledge-based economy in the world. What is the role of knowledge in the modern economy and how far have we got in meeting the EU’s ambitious target?

Even though the Lisbon agenda was established 20 years ago, it can still be considered as quite an extraordinary policy. The Lisbon agenda is an essential point of reference for understanding what it means to commit to the prioritisation of education and the training system to develop a contemporary society.

With the pandemic, one of the things we have surely been deprived of is school. In my view this institution is too often taken for granted; we underestimate the importance of education for all ages to our way of life. The knowledge economy is based on education and training, and I feel that we are still very far away from having achieved the objective of the Lisbon agenda.

What I wish for from now on is adequate awareness with the right decision-making. We need to understand that this unique and strange situation in which we find ourselves in cannot be remedied solely by online teaching. This will never be able to replace, not even in part, face-to-face teaching. I believe that we have, in the current crisis, the opportunity to enact what was written 20 years ago in the Lisbon agenda and rethink these priorities. Online education is advantageous since it means more people can be educated; however, it takes away the importance of collaboration in teaching, something which is better facilitated when we are all in the same room. To give an example, when you arrive in a company it is important to shadow someone and learn from them. You cannot learn in this same way online. This type of learning comes very much from example. We are like animals; we need to be able to model examples, and this modelling mainly occurs in person.

Europe must focus again on the importance of education for the future generation by putting more resources into this sector. We need to take a quantum leap into a new world, and I believe that education is the way to get there.

Jobs in STEM (science, technology, engineering, and maths) have been described as ‘the occupations of the future’, driving economic growth and innovation, and social wellbeing. Yet, a 2017 study by The European Institute for Gender Equality found that among tertiary STEM graduates, only one third of women end up in STEM jobs, compared to one in two men. Why is gender parity in STEM so important in today’s knowledge economy and what more can be done to close the gap?

With the development of the knowledge economy and the growing importance of new technologies, it seems that skills in STEM are increasingly necessary and will continue to become more important in the coming years. To ensure our capacity to develop in these areas, it is essential to approach young people and excite them about these developments to ensure that enough people are qualified in this area. When discussing study programmes, I believe that it is important to attract young people to inspire them to work in STEM. Though there are more and more women in the scientific fields, this is not enough. Diversity in the scientific sector is a legacy that we need to fight to attain.

One of the difficulties that women are facing in STEM is stereotypes. These are very insidious because they slip into our minds and stick, without us really realising. Comments when you are young such as “the science field is only for men” need to be countered. We must speak about STEM in a gender inclusive way, even to young children. It is by doing this that girls and boys will be able to realise their full potential in scientific and technological careers.

One of the difficulties that
women are facing in STEM is stereotypes.
These are very insidious because
they slip into our minds and stick,
without us really realising.

Institutions and companies play a special role in promoting science education activities, which influence the way that students construct their identity and attitudes towards STEM. Furthermore, a lack of diversity can have dire consequences in scientific trials. If researchers do not take the gender variable into account, the result obtained can be distorted. For example, if a drug is only tested on males, the results will be totally wrong.

I believe that it is extremely important to reposition the image of STEM. At Jacobacci, we have a large representation of women who have completed scientific and technological studies and whilst this number is constantly increasing, there is still more work to be done for STEM to become truly diverse.

You have long been a champion for women’s advancement in leadership positions, both as a Board Member AIDDA, an Italian association seeking to promote and support female entrepreneurs, managers, and professionals, and as a Board Member of WIL. What are some of the barriers to ensuring equal representation of women and men in leadership positions in Europe and how have you sought to overcome these as Manager Director of Jacobacci & Partners?

It is essential that we all contribute to breaking down gender stereotype. Women and men, in all their diversity, should always have the same opportunities for equal fulfilment. There are still too few women in managing positions, and the fact that men have exclusively occupied the top positions historically makes it very hard for a woman today to break through into these high-level leadership positions. It is important to push women to go for these opportunities.

From a leadership perspective, a diverse leadership is the best leadership. It is important to have both men and women present in the top positions in order to bring new ideas and strategies to the table so that we are equipped to respond to the complex challenges we are facing today.

Over the years, at Jacobacci & Partners, we have worked to achieve equal representation of women and men. However, there is still more work to be done. Since I entered the Board of Directors in 2004, we have attained an equal representation of women and men in the Executive Committee. We still have a long way to go, but I am proud to be one of the first people in my firm working towards gender equality and supporting the conciliation of professional and private life for women.

This conciliation of the professional and private sphere is really important to me. In the household, women are usually the carer of the children. Following this trend, Jacobacci & Partners has tried to make the lives of women with families easier, especially during the pandemic when they had to work from home whilst looking after their children. To lift some of this stress, we offered online yoga classes for children to encourage them to practice at home. In addition, last summer we hosted our yearly summer camp to look after the children of our employees when the schools are closed over the summer but when mothers were still working. I am also proud of a long-standing tradition we have at the office, which is to leave a bouquet of flowers on a new mother’s desk when she returns from maternity leave.

We also try to keep this gender representation present in our events. In Italy, we organise one of the most important events about technology transfer called the 4T-Tech Transfer Think Tank. We have been running this event, dedicated to tech transfer and innovation, for eight years. For the past edition, we dedicated the event to innovative health at the time of COVID-19 and presented this topic with a diverse line-up of speakers and an equally diverse scientific committee.

We like to finish our interviews with a question from the Proust questionnaire. Your chosen question is: What do you consider your greatest achievement?

I have been very lucky in both my private and professional life. I am very proud of my beautiful family and my three children. I would say that my greatest achievement has been finding a good balance between the various aspects and roles in my life. During my career, I was able to work flexible hours and this really allowed me to spend time with my children, especially when they were younger.

I believe that women should not be forced to find excuses to spend time with their families and children. It is unacceptable that women who choose to have a family are penalised for it. I believe that all the good moments we encounter make the bad ones easier to overcome. In every situation, we must remember that there is something to learn.

I believe in many ways that my biggest achievement is still to come, and I would like to play a role in changing the rules for a better world - not only for women but for everybody.

I believe in many ways that
my biggest achievement is still to come,
and I would like to play a role
in changing the rules for a better world -
not only for women but for everybody.

Interviewed by Aurélie Doré

This month, we had the pleasure of interviewing WIL member Mary Lawrence, Partner in Osborne Clarke’s commercial and regulatory disputes team and Head of Osborne Clarke’s health and safety practice. We discussed her work on advising businesses during the current unprecedented public health and safety crisis, and why it is so important to her to be involved in a network dedicated to female leaders.

Can you describe your current role as Partner in Osborne Clarke’s commercial and regulatory disputes team and Head of the health and safety team?

In my current role, I work alongside a fantastic team of other lawyers to help businesses understand their health and safety duties. My mission is to help them make their businesses safer and healthier places to work, as well as supporting them when something goes wrong and they are investigated by the authorities.

What do you enjoy the most in your current role?

I get to spend most of my time speaking to - and hopefully helping - people, which is what I really love about my role. I am lucky that I get to lead a team of eight lawyers who are specialised in health and safety.

Among them are some excellent women with whom I have worked for several years and whose development and progression I have championed. I am proud to work with these women, and especially proud to have gender diversity in the team.

I was lucky enough to join the team when we were much smaller. As the team has grown over the years, I have had the opportunity to mould and shape it.

The COVID-19 pandemic is an unprecedented public health and safety crisis. In this context, your role is more crucial than ever. How do you plan to help your clients navigate the challenges that lie ahead?

We have been hugely busy during the pandemic, helping our clients to navigate how to do business with all the restrictions that have been put in place. We have been running frequent webinars, or simply talking to clients about the issues to try and keep them abreast of what the rules are, and what the law is. Not only have we been helping our clients understand the current restrictions, but I have also been working with clients to help them think ahead and reflect on how this crisis is going to affect businesses of the future and shape things in the longer term.

One of the most absorbing projects that I have been involved in during this time is focused on helping one particular industry in the UK shape their industry guidance. This same guidance, which focused on how to operate safely during the COVID-19 pandemic, was then endorsed by the UK Government. It was interesting to watch how this played out, with the aim of helping businesses stay up and running.

Why is it important for you to be involved in a network dedicated to female leaders?

It seems to me that you have a different conversation when you are all women or when there are many women together. It feels safer, you can talk more openly, and I like that. I often work with men, so I am not afraid of that situation; however, I do relish the opportunity to gather collectively with a group of women from time to time.

I also believe that role models are crucial. Finding someone who has traits you admire and wish to emulate is so important. That is not just about looking up to people who are more senior than you but it is also about observing anyone you work with and seeing what you can take and learn from them.

Before joining Osborne Clark, I had reached a stage in my career in my mid-thirties where I really felt that it was important to have a female role model to look up to. I had worked with a female boss before and she was fantastic. When I interviewed for a position at Osborne Clarke, I saw the possibility to have another person above me from whom I could learn a great  deal, and that was one of the main reasons why I moved to the organisation.

Role models are crucial. 
Finding someone who has traits
you admire and wish to emulate is so important.

What advice would you give to your younger self and to the young generation of female leaders?

The best advice I received was from my Dad when I was starting out in my career. It was about authenticity, trusting your gut instinct, holding your values close to you and not letting them be impacted. This was at a time when I was a junior lawyer, or maybe just entering the profession. It is a time when you do feel constantly challenged and you are not sure if you are becoming the right person, the person you want to be. That advice really helped me navigate through a complex time.

When you are choosing a place to work, take the time to question if it is the right fit for your values, and if it is not, ask yourself if it really is the right place for you.

Of course, it is important to be challenged and to listen to other people, but I do think that being authentic is crucial. This advice from my father is still relevant to me and I would give it to people of a younger generation.

The best advice I received was about authenticity,
trusting your gut instinct,
holding your values close to you
and not letting them be impacted.

One of the big conversations we have been having recently is about the critical role of men in this conversation, and the need  for both men and women to really support and champion those below them in their careers and actively provide opportunities to women progressing in their career. Whilst it is important to have groups which bring together women only, we must also look at what we are asking of men, and how they can help us.

Interviewed by Hanna Müller

2020 has been marked by a global pandemic which has taken its toll on women economically and socially. In this interview, Olena Podoleva, Professor of Economics and Vice President at the Ukrainian National Committee of the International Chamber of Commerce (ICC), talks about why this is the case, and about what she is doing in her role to support the development of female entrepreneurship and women’s empowerment in business and technology. An interview about the importance of keeping in mind the female perspective during chaotic times.

How would you define the mission of the International Chamber of Commerce and what do you see as its role in the world, especially during the COVID-19 crisis?

The ICC is the most influential organisation in global business. We are the institutional representative of more than 45 million companies in over 100 countries, with a mission to make business work for everyone, every day, everywhere.

Through a unique mix of advocacy, solutions, and standard setting, we promote international trade, responsible business conduct, and a global approach to regulation, as well as providing market-leading dispute resolution services. Our members include many of the world’s leading companies, SMEs, business associations and local Chambers of Commerce. We represent business interests at the highest levels of intergovernmental decision-making - whether at the World Trade Organisation, the United Nations or the G20 – to ensure that the voice of business is heard. This capacity to bridge the public and private sectors sets us apart as a unique institution responding to the needs of any stakeholder involved in international commerce.

In a coordinated effort to combat the coronavirus pandemic, the ICC and the World Health Organization have agreed to work closely to ensure that the latest, most reliable information and tailored guidance reaches the global business community. The ICC has launched SOS, a one-stop shop, as part of a global campaign to SaveOurSMEs. The SOS site highlights the challenges MSMEs face and features calls for urgent and coordinated action from governments, private sector leaders and international institutions to ensure their continued viability.

It is this capacity to bridge the
public and private sectors
that sets the ICC apart as a
unique institution.

The past few months have been a whirlwind for the global economy. How would you assess the current economic landscape and prospects for the future?

The baseline forecast of the World Bank in June 2020 envisions a 5.2 percent contraction in global GDP in 2020 — the deepest world recession in decades. By comparison: in 2019, Global GDP grew by 2.4 percent. Per capita incomes in most emerging and developing economies will shrink this year.

At that time (June 2020), few researchers expected a second COVID-19 wave. Now we can see that the second wave is hitting many countries much harder than the first did. No one knows what impact this will have on the dynamic of GDP decline. Advanced and Developing Economies are likely to experience a deeper shock and a slower recovery, but there is much we still do not know. Coronavirus makes the future uncertain. However, the message is clear: we urgently need policy actions to protect populations and improve our capacity to respond to a global pandemic.

Today, nobody can predict the
economic impact of the pandemic.
Coronavirus makes the future uncertain.

From your perspective, how is the Coronavirus pandemic particularly impacting women?

Compared with the 2008 financial crisis, when more men lost their jobs, COVID-19 is hitting women harder. At the start of the pandemic, 55 percent of all employed in the service sector worldwide were women. There were over 800 million women in retail trade, food production, tourism, restaurant business etc. Due to the pandemic women in these sectors are affected by job cuts and shortened working hours. In some countries, there was almost a complete paralysis of the restaurant and hotel sectors – and this sector employs 144 million women.

Female workers in the health and social sector are the next group most affected by the pandemic. These include doctors, nurses, pharmacists, and care home staff. These female workers have a much higher chance of catching COVID-19. For example, in the UK, 2.5 million (or about 77 percent) out of 3.2 million such workers are women. At the same time, almost all low-paid positions (to be exact 98 percent) are held by women. Obviously, solving these problems should be the focus of our attention in the post-pandemic period. I believe that female leadership should play an effective role in this.

The crisis has battered industry sectors
in which women’s employment is
more concentrated…

But the financial impact is only half the story:
women are at the core of
the fight against COVID-19.

Analysing the national policies of the Coronavirus crisis, we can see that the effectiveness of policies varies. Female leaders such as Prime Minister of New Zealand Jacinda Ardern, the President of Taiwan Tsai Ing-Wen, the Norwegian Prime Minister Erna Solberg, Finish Prime Minister Sanna Marin provide more effective anti-COVID policies than their male counterparts.

However, at the beginning of the pandemic, only 10 of 152 heads of state and government were women. Therefore, women were constituted only seven percent of the world’s leaders. We urgently need to empower more women to reach leading positions!

Policy makers, regional frameworks, multilateral organisations, and international financial institutions must recognise that women will play a crucial role in resolving the crisis, and that measures to address the pandemic and its economic fallout should include a gendered perspective.

Measures to address the pandemic
and its economic fallout should include
a gendered perspective.

In your role as Vice President at ICC Ukraine, you are responsible for a variety of international projects. Which one might be the most important from a societal perspective?

I am responsible for different international projects. However, our activities around women in business concern me the most. We support the development of female entrepreneurship and women’s empowerment in business and technology.Since 2017, we have organized more than 80 events among them trainings, panel discussions, round tables, webinars, and forums in which participated more than 4000 women from different regions of Ukraine. To help women create and run successful companies, we have launched a special program attracting investors for female business. We also have mentoring programs, and have conducted international conferences with experts, not only from Ukraine but from other countries as well. We had the pleasure to host the President of Estonia, Kersti Kaljulaid, who shared her wisdom about female leadership and talked about her own career.

You also promote female leaders in social business. Can you tell us why you focus on helping women in this specific sector?

There is a trend, not only in Ukraine, but worldwide: the social enterprise model continues to attract more women than men. We find female leaders in many social business sectors: education, social welfare and employment, children and youth.

Let's have a look at what seems to drive them. Women tend to long for sustainable impact, to be innovative and to pioneer new solutions. They try to be independent and gain a better balance between professional and private life. Most aspire to develop new skills and grow professionally, while men are, in contrast, often motivated by more financial opportunities.

There are many barriers to starting up a new business, especially for women: stereotypes, uncertainty, lack of knowledge, financing, and experience are only some of them. That is why we launched different projects for female social entrepreneurs. We try to support women and accompany them along their business journey. We help them to find a partner, create a network, exchange experience, communicate, learn from each other, and find a mentor.

You are woman in leadership, holding a PhD degree in Economics, with a fruitful career not only at the ICC. What is the most important lesson you have learnt in your professional career?

No matter what career path you choose, there are three keys to success: a good idea, a good team, and hard work.

There are three keys to success:
a good idea, a good team,
and hard work.

Do you have a piece of advice you would like to share with women who wish to follow in your footsteps?

When it comes to career advice, listen to Steve Jobs: “The only way to be satisfied is to do what you believe is great work, and the only way to do great work is to love what you do”

We usually finish our interviews with a question from the Proust questionnaire. I chose this one for you: What is your motto?

Benjamin Disraeli, who served as Britain's Prime Minister, novelist and bon viveur, once said: “Action may not always bring happiness; but there is no happiness without action.”

We were delighted to interview our WIL Member Marie-Claire Daveu, Chief Sustainability Officer and Head of International Institutional Affairs for Kering ahead of her appearance as a guest speaker at our recent Online Debate. We spoke about Kering’s role leading the charge on sustainability within the textile industry. Learn more about Marie-Claire in this interview.

Companies are playing a crucial role in global efforts to stem the Covid-19 spread and to mitigate its economic and societal impact. How has Kering responded to the pandemic? What have been your main actions and how did you, at Kering, effectively decide what you should focus on first?

The health and safety of our employees has been our priority since the very early stages of the Covid-19 outbreak. Kering and ourHouses have been protecting our employees and workers in the supply chain and ensuring business continuity, whilst simultaneouslycontributing to the fight against the pandemic globally.

Throughout this period, Kering and our Houses have carried out several initiatives to support medical staff and health institutions, and those affected by Covid-19. Given the scale of the situation, we were active in several regions, and in each region we offered our  support to suit the local needs. For example, we donated funds to Italy’s four major foundation hospitals and to organisations  like the World Health Organisation and the Hubei Red Cross Foundation. In addition, several of our brands recalibrated their supply chain factories to make PPE for the medical community.

Another response that Kering took in the face of Covid-19 was in helping combat the notable spike in domestic violence caused by the pandemic. The Kering Foundation quickly responded to support its NGO partners by giving emergency funds and launching awareness raising campaigns, which provided information and tailored resources for women who have been especially vulnerable during this period.

The health and safety of our employees
has been our priority since
the very early stages of the Covid-19 outbreak

The COVID-19 pandemic reshuffled the priorities of European leaders and the EU is now set on reinforcing its efforts to launch sustainability as the main driver for growth. What are your views on the European Commission’ s sustainability commitments and the European Green Deal?

The European Green Deal presents an exciting new opportunity to set priorities in terms of the environment and people in an unprecedented way at the European level. It places sustainability at the core of the EU strategy and roadmap, as we do at Kering. This will undoubtedly support a larger shift throughout Europe towards the adoption of sustainability best practices, at both the governmental and corporate level. For instance, part of the Green Deal is about reporting on corporate environmental impacts - this will help drive transparency and accountability, which is key to stimulate climate action. At Kering we have been a leader in this transparency movement for some time through our Environmental Profit and Loss accounting, which is both a public report and an internal driver for change.

Overcoming both the economic and environmental crises will require a shared ambition and collective efforts. Even before the crisis, you promoted the necessity to work together, as evidenced by the launch of Kering’s Fashion Pact last year. Could you tell us more about this initiative?

At Kering we have always believed that collaboration in the fashion industry is essential to change the industry’s many outdated and unsustainable systems. This was the premise behind creating the Fashion Pact - to galvanise  a commitment to common environmental objectives focusing on three major issues: climate, biodiversity, and oceans.

A year ago, our Chairman and CEO, François-Henri Pinault, presented the Fashion Pact to President Emmanuel Macron and the G7 leaders, and an update on its progress was recently shared. Since launching the Fashion Pact, membership has doubled to over sixty signatories from international leading companies in the fashion and textile industry, together representing over two hundred brands and approximately 35% of the fashion industry. This level of involvement is critical to ensure positive change along fashion’s supply chains - particularly around collaborative action and areas where scaled solutions are needed to achieve critical mass on a global scale.

The coalition has already made some key first steps, including the development of a public digital dashboard of KPIs to measure the members’ joint impact. There is real momentum behind the Fashion Pact, and it is now well mobilised  in its journey to impact lasting change.

This summer, Kering published its Biodiversity Strategy, committing itself to a net positive impact on biodiversity by 2025. What are some of the strategies you will employ to achieve your targets?

Having a detailed strategy for biodiversity is key for companies to ensure they not only strategically mitigate their impact on nature, but also work to protect and restore nature.  Our new biodiversity strategy is focused on the prevention of biodiversity degradation, the promotion of sustainable and regenerative farming practices favouring  soil health, and the protection of global ecosystems and forests that are vital for carbon sequestration.

Alongside our previous environmental commitments, we set up new biodiversity targets with a goal to have a “net positive” impact on biodiversity by 2025.  Part of this includes converting one million hectares of farms and rangelands in the Group’s supply chain landscapes into regenerative agricultureand, further, to protect an additional one million hectares of critical habitat outside of our supply chain. To help us do this, as an example, we partner with organisations  on the ground like the Savory Institute to promote the regenerative production of raw materials. Our new ‘Kering for Nature Fund’ will also help support the fashion industry’s transition to regenerative agriculture more broadly. 

Having a detailed strategy for biodiversity
is key for companies to ensure they not only
strategically mitigate their impact on nature,
ut also work to protect and restore nature.

What other SGD targets are you working on at Kering, and could you share with us some of Kering’s best practices?

Our social and environmental targets are linked to the Sustainable Development Goals and we have mapped the SDGs alongside our key initiatives.  More specifically, whilst Kering can contribute directly or indirectly in variable proportions to each of the 17 SDGs, there are 7 SDGs which we can have a more significant impact than elsewhere: SDG #3 (good health and well-being), #5 (gender equality), #6 (clean water and sanitation), #8 (decent work and economic growth), #12 (responsible consumption and production), #13 (climate action) and #15 (life on land).

On an operational level, our detailed Kering Standards outline our best practices across raw materials and production processes, which our suppliers need to adhere to.  We also have a Science Based Target on climate, and we are supporting the development of a Science Based Target for biodiversity, as well as having set the foundation to align with a 1.5-degree pathway for the Group.

You have been a member here at WIL Europe for a long time. Why is it important for you to be involved in a network dedicated to female leaders and to promote gender equality in general?

A dedicated network for female leadership provides a space where we can discuss how to maintain a healthy work/life balance with our peers. It is also very important to have the opportunity to exchange best practices and experiences in our professional environments – and sectors – where women are usually not in the majority.  Promoting gender equality but also diversity in all its forms is crucial to ensure that all voices are at the decision-making table to create better outcomes for our people and our planet in the future.

Promoting gender equality, but also diversity in all its forms,
is crucial to ensure that all voices
are at the decision-making table to create better outcomes
for our people and our planet in the future.

Interviewed by Aurélie Doré

For this month’s interview, we have had the pleasure to meet WIL Member Katie Vickery, Regulatory and Compliance Partner at Osborne Clarke. We discussed the survey she supervised on how the way businesses assess risk and approach compliance has changed since Covid-19, but also what she considers her greatest strength, leadership style, as well as her own experience of combining a career with a family life.

Can you describe your current role as a Partner specialized in regulatory compliance and risk at Osborne Clarke?

I am a regulatory litigator by background so I started my career doing purely contentious work, where I would defend businesses being prosecuted or investigated by regulatory authorities. As I became more experienced, having a deep understanding of what happens to companies when compliance systems fail has allowed me to give very rounded and risk-based advice on what good compliance systems look like.

Compliance covers a broad range of things, from building safety to marketing content. I work with international companies who want to implement an effective compliance system across their operations. Whether you work in France, Spain, India or China, more and more companies operate from the same standard, even if laws and culture are different. I help make sure the business is protected, and the system they implement works within the various teams and businesses - I find it creative despite what one might think about compliance!

Good compliance must be led from the top, be very engaging and actively adopted by the workforce to be effective.

Compliance sometimes gets bad press,
but I really believe it is fundamental
to run a successful and profitable business.

You were the lead on-site lawyer in the aftermath of the Buncefield fire and explosion. What leadership skills were necessary for the successful conduct of this crisis situation?

The Buncefield fuel depot fire in December 2005 was the UK's biggest peacetime explosion. I was quite young in my career at that point, but I was asked to go on-site for 8 months. My job was to protect my client’s position, but also to work with the regulator to secure evidence.

It is probably my most extreme example of being a leader in a crisis, but that has also been a big aspect of my job for several other clients. It has led me to be the calming influence, the one with the clear head and the right direction in mind. Dealing with a crisis requires a good degree of confidence in yourself and being able to take control of a situation when everybody else is very emotional. You have to be very organized, flexible, versatile, and agile.

You also need to have excellent communication skills, as well as the ability to build relationships very quickly, and create that instant connection with somebody, whether that is your client or the regulator you are dealing with.

Do you think being a woman had an impact on the way you handled the crisis?

Being a woman in this kind of crisis was helpful. Thankfully, nobody died in the Buncefield fire, but understandably there was a huge amount of emotion. I think people are more inclined to open up to a woman, share information and tell you how they feel, which is crucial because it’s very hard to advise a business when you don’t have all the information.

On the flip side, there are times where a business is very male dominated, and you can feel the distinction of not being one of the boys but it has never stopped me building a positive working relationship. I’ve found that it is far better to stay true to who I am and gain respect that way..

Managing a team effectively requires vision, communication and a number of diverse skills. As a Partner, what is your leadership style and how has it evolved since the beginning of your career?

Your style of leadership really evolves as you become more experienced, work with great leaders, and learn from them.

You have to start by having a vision, see clearly where you are trying to get to, believing in it, and then inspiring others to join you on that journey, so that they see the vision as well, even if they might not see it in the way you see it, in full technicolor! Then, you have to be open enough to listen to others, accept their inputs and work with people to shape your ideas.

Some people are skeptical, they will challenge you and make it difficult. Which is why having people who are your supporters, who you can turn to for advice and who will constructively challenge you is important. There have always been people around me at work who I have massively admired and wanted to learn from. I also feel incredibly lucky that I have had strong family support, but also work with very inspiring people at all levels.

Good leadership, as opposed to management,
has nothing to do with your position in the company, or your title,
it comes from people at different levels,
and in different situations as well.

You have extensive experience in Global Compliance, Enforcement and Crisis Management, having worked in leading international firms such as Pinsent Masons, Eversheds and now Osborne Clarke. What do you consider to be your greatest strength?

Having that self-confidence and a clear vision are probably the greatest strengths I lean on.

From a family perspective, I could never remotely achieve what I have achieved if I did not have such a supportive family, and particularly my lovely husband. I am always careful about portraying the super woman image (which I am not), I have just married really well! I have this amazing person who gives me the space and the flexibility to do my job and fulfill my career, but who is also supportive to allow me to be a great mum.

You recently supervised a survey about how the way businesses assess risk and approach compliance has changed. One of the key points is that investment will be driven by risks to reputation and where an ethical stance has been taken. Could you give us more insights about it?

We started planning the survey before Covid-19 because I felt there was a real lack of research as to how businesses were properly implementing and measuring the positive outcomes of compliance.

One issue that came out of the survey is the focus business has on reputation. As the power of social media is so crucial, it does not even matter whether you are totally compliant with the law, but rather how your brand is portrayed in the media. This can lead to a risk of implementing compliance measures for the wrong reason; you can only sustain an external reputation that’s different to what is happening internally for a short period of time.

Covid-19 has obviously drawn attention to the importance of safety and cyber security compliance. But I do wonder whether Covid has provided a more rounded view on compliance and an appreciation of the need to deal holistically with multiple risk issues.

If the public perceives that what you are doing is unethical,
then your reputation will be affected
and that is an immensely powerful incentive for businesses
to be on the front foot with compliance.

COVID-19 has created unprecedented business and regulatory disruption in a condensed period. In this context, how do you plan to help your clients navigate the legal compliance challenges that lie ahead?

I am pleased to say that there are lots of businesses that take compliance seriously and plenty of senior leaders and directors that recognize the importance of it. So, you always have good champions within a business, but you still need to bring some people with you on the journey.

For me it is all about helping the company to recognize that good compliance is essential to running a business. Regulation is increasing across Europe, there are new regulatory risks emerging including climate change and an increased focus on safety. Regulators struggle with a finite budget, so they get more creative about how they are going to enforce regulations, but when they do take enforcement action, it tends to be much more hard hitting.

For a business to ignore the importance of compliance or to limit it to a team or department is missing the point. Understanding that it must be inherent in all parts of a business is crucial.

I tend to work with clients by having a good hard look at the risks the business is facing. It is important to assess all compliance areas and not treat them in silos but try to have a more holistic approach. Doing a gap analysis to figure out how the business can make changes, and realising that it is rarely a quick process and you are not going to be able to cover everything at once, means you need to prioritize what your top five risks are and focus on addressing those.

The essential part of effective compliance
is about improving the culture and it has to be led from the top.
Management needs to be seen and lead by example,
because if you do not do that, people won’t follow.

Interviewed by Hanna Müller

Petra De Sutter is not only a Member of the European Parliament, but also a professor of gynecology, and former head of the Department of Reproductive Medicine at Ghent University Hospital. Her political credo: Do not take the progress on women’s rights for granted. Learn more about our new Member in this interview!

Prior to your career in European politics, you worked as a gynaecologist and fertility expert. What made you take the leap into politics and how has your unique background influenced your political activism?

Since 1987, I have been a gynaecologist and a specialist in reproductive medicine. I went through purely scientific work in the lab, through the clinic and then ethics, which finally brought me to politics. I was a member of ethical committees and advisory boards giving advice to the government, public authorities, and ministers; they did not always follow my advice and I realized that decisions are, in reality, made at the political level.

My work has always been directly related to environmental topics, such as endocrine-disrupting chemicals: a group of chemicals that damage hormones and can lead to infertility, cancer, and autoimmune diseases. In addition, I have always been intrigued by social justice, solidarity, human rights, discrimination issues, equality, and as a gynaecologist obviously gender equality. If you combine these topics, you have half of the program of the Green Party.

As a scientific expert, in 2014 I joined the list of candidates for the European Parliament elections. A little later, I became a candidate for the Senate with a half-time mandate, which allowed me to combine my political interest with my work at the hospital and the university. Finally, I ended up in the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, which is an institution older than the European Union (EU) itself. After those first exciting steps into politics, I am at the European Parliament today working on the internal market and consumer protection and also on health, environment and social rights, which brings me back to the protection of workers against chemicals. As you can see, it has been a logical career path.

You are the first Green Chairwoman of the Committee on Internal Market and Consumer Affairs (IMCO). Could you tell us more about this Committee and the current Green agenda?

A current area of concern of this committee is consumer protection. There is a lot of spam, unfair prices, and faked or unsafe products coming from outside the EU that you can buy on Amazon or other platforms. All these emerging technologies like artificial intelligence must be human-centred, which means that there needs to be accountability behind every application, be it self-driving cars or medical diagnostics.

We also work on topics such as consumption, goods production, circular economy, waste management, and the right to repair. For example, we want to reduce plastic and electronic waste, introduce universal chargers for cell phones or other electronics, and increase the lifespan of the products we use. Citizens should be able to decide whether they want to buy a television set for 1000 € with a lifespan of ten years and another one for 300€ that will break in two years.

We also support the circular economy which is currently emerging. The commission has already proposed a few topics in the framework of the Green Deal such as the zero-CO2 emission target for 2050.

You defend sexual and reproductive health of girls and women and are part of the group MEPs for Sexual and Reproductive Rights (SRHR). How can we empower girls and women in this area, and what are some key policies you are fighting for?

Working on reproduction issues for more than 30 years, this is a crucial subject for me. Everybody should have the right to decide for him or herself how many children to have, with whom, when and how. It is a matter of human rights, much broader than just sexuality and reproduction, and it touches especially upon women’s rights.

Empowering girls and women all starts with education. We must make sure that girls go to school, that they are not married when they are 13 and have three children by the age of 18. We must ensure that women are independent and can take care of themselves.

There is still a lot to be done, even in Europe because of the ideological battle and the counter reaction that we have seen growing in the past years, which is now very active and organized and goes back to the traditional norms and values of men. This patriarchal idea is indeed currently growing in Europe, mainly in the politically extreme right movements, but also in other very conservative reactionary groups that are politically present at the European level and getting support from the US and Russia.

That current movement is a growing concern and we must be aware. At the UN level, language is changing: what we did 25 years ago concerning international treaties on women’s rights would not be possible today. Many countries have taken a very conservative discourse. Even the EU, which has always been a champion in that domain, is now more and more silent because the EU speaks with one voice at the UN level. Under the influence of countries as Poland, Hungary, Romania, and Slovakia, there is a lot of pressure not to be too progressive and advanced on topics like SRHR.

Everybody has the right to decide for him or herself 
how many children to have, with whom, when and how.

2020 has been a year of unprecedented turmoil and change. How can we keep conversations focused on ecological transition and a socially just society amidst the COVID-19 pandemic? Are you optimistic for the future?

Yes, I am, and I will tell you why: even the European Commission and most member states in the EU declared that we will have to consider the ambitions of the Green Deal to recover from the current crisis. If your house burns down, and you must rebuild it, you will not rebuild it with the materials and methods of 30 years ago when it was first built. You will build it with an eye towards the future, in a sustainable way. This is a message that most member states, industries, and entrepreneurs understand.

Now is the time to make decisions respecting the green transition. It is an opportunity, not a problem. This Green Deal should be the core, the skeleton, the guideline for economic recovery.

The same holds for digitalization. It is very important for the European Commission to go digital. If we have learned anything from the crisis, it is that we must invest, give people reliable internet solutions and think about remote work in a more structured way for the future.

Now is the time to make decisions respecting the green transition. 
It is an opportunity, not a problem.

You are a strong advocate for the LGBTQI community in Europe. Do you think that European politics are becoming more inclusive and tolerant?

I am not positive; but I am an optimist. One the one hand, there are a lot of things heading in the right direction: two years ago, Ireland decriminalized abortion. On the other hand, Poland is making access to abortion more difficult or even tried to ban it during the COVID crisis. There are still many Eastern European countries where domestic violence is tolerated; and Hungary is not teaching gender studies at their universities anymore.

Sometimes countries move forward, and sometimes others try to move backwards. The overall outlook is still encouraging. However, my main message is “let's not fall asleep.” The world needs to understand that maybe one day things could change for the worst. Who knows what political forces will be dominant in the future? If political forces further to the right take majority, they are likely to immediately attack a lot of treaties, liberties, and rights that we have been building for the last 30 years.

So never think that our rights are permanent and that we can rest secure and go to sleep!

Let's not fall asleep: the world needs to understand
that maybe one day things could change for the worst.

As well as your extensive work in European politics, you are still a professor of gynaecology at Gent University in Belgium. How do you juggle your many different roles, and more importantly, how do you make time for yourself?

I have learned to understand what is important and what is not and if I believe in something, I will go all the way. But I also know my limits, both physically and mentally. Occasionally, I need some time off, take some quality time with my partner, be out in the nature, playing the cello, meditating and I have been doing yoga for years. Meditation brings a lot of order to my thoughts.

I am very privileged to do things that give me energy and that bring a sense of responsibility to my life. I live in the here-and-now, leaving the past in the past, and what happens tomorrow for tomorrow.

What do you consider your greatest achievement?

I do not think about great achievements or ambition. I hold a lot of degrees and prizes, but it is all very relative. I understand that tomorrow everything can be gone, and everybody has forgotten about you.

I just want to do what I believe in and inspire those around me. If I can help, give answers, or tell someone where to turn for help, that is an achievement. That is what I have been doing as a doctor with my patients, every couple, man or woman. Getting a card with a picture of their baby makes me happy. That is my passion, my vocation. I am trying to do the same in politics.

If I can help, give answers, or tell someone
where to turn for help, that is an achievement.

Interviewed by Hajar El Baraka

Our premium partner Orange is leading the way towards corporate diversity, inclusivity, and gender equality. This month, we had the pleasure of interviewing our Board Member Delphine Pouponneau, Director of Diversity & Inclusion for the Orange Group.

We discussed her work and her contribution to the development of an inclusive artificial intelligence and to promoting more gender diversity in data and AI related jobs. Delphine also shared with us her insights on Human Resources management during the Covid-19 crisis and reiterated the importance of networks such as WIL Europe.

In April 2019, you were appointed Director of Diversity & Inclusion for the Orange Group. What are the most important decisions that you have had to make? What would you like to improve?

In an open, complex and competitive labour market, and to meet the technological, societal and environmental challenges that the world is facing, companies need to include diversity and inclusion ambitions in their priorities.

My mission is to design and coordinate the deployment of the Group’s diversity and inclusion policy in France and internationally, which means: constantly questioning our practices, to give men and women the same opportunities; striving to build an inclusive environment and helping our clients to confidently navigate the digital world.

Last year, we signed a global agreement on workplace gender equality, demonstrating our commitment to employee diversity and equality in the 26 countries within Orange’s footprint. This year, on April 21, together with the Arborus endowment fund, we launched the international charter for inclusive artificial intelligence, in particular with a view to promoting women in digital professions.

More generally, we are also working on initiatives with non-profit organisations to promote equal opportunities, support the professional integration of the most vulnerable people, and encourage digital inclusion.

Companies need to include diversity and inclusion ambitions in their priorities to meet the technological, societal and environmental challenges that the world is facing.

In July 2019, Orange signed a global agreement with UNI Global Union on workplace gender equality. What concrete measures has this agreement led to and how are you adapting them to the different challenges and contexts in each country?

Orange is an international group present in 26 countries. This agreement is the first of its kind amongst CAC 40 companies and in the telecommunications sector, and covers three areas: workplace gender equality, work-life balance, and combatting discrimination and violence.

We have set ourselves several objectives to achieve by 2025, such as improving the gender diversity of teams, especially in technical professions, and achieving a proportion of women in management bodies of 35%, etc.

The implementation of this agreement relies on a structured dialogue and on the active participation of all stakeholders. We created local diversity committees to review current situations and define an action plan that is adapted to the local context. Action plans will be tracked over time, in collaboration with unions and staff representatives.

We also focus on getting our offices around the world certified by the Gender Equality European & International Standard (GEEIS) label.

On April 21, Orange and Arborus launched an international charter for inclusive artificial intelligence. What are the companies that sign the charter committing to, and what issues does their commitment address?

Artificial intelligence (AI) is an excellent driver of progress and an opportunity for reducing inequalities, so long as it is designed inclusively. The aim of the charter is to create a framework of trust because the potential of AI can be fully realized only by designing, deploying and operating it in a responsible and inclusive way.

The commitments made in this charter address three major issues:

• Promoting women in AI jobs: because a mix of men and women is the only way to guarantee the sustainable objectivity of AI-based programs.
• Giving each link in the chain the means to detect and report potential bias, through a training programme. We can only effectively combat bias if we raise the awareness of all players and, more generally, society as a whole.
• Implementing a continuous improvement process for the quality of data used, to respond to all forms of discrimination.

We hope that many companies and institutions will sign this charter, which is an initial step towards the introduction of the GEEIS-AI label.

We also support the initiative taken by Institut Montaigne called “Objectif IA” to introduce at least 1% of the French population to the fundamental aspects of artificial intelligence.

The potential of AI can be fully realized only by designing,
deploying and operating itin a responsible and inclusive way.

Orange has been a partner of WIL for over 10 years. Many of your female executives are part of our network and, every year, 10 of your talents join our leadership programme. Why is it so important to continue to support us and to take advantage of the opportunities our network provides to senior executives at Orange?

Orange promotes the development of many networks, within and outside the company. Today, at Orange, fifteen internal networks are active in a dozen countries worldwide with over 6,500 members, both women and men.

WIL Europe is a wonderful opportunity to exchange with talented women, create networks, gain access to different cultural and professional environments. It also gives us the opportunity to offer our young talents a leadership programme and help them boost their career by meeting Europe’s elite in the political and economic spheres.

WIL Europe is a wonderful opportunity to exchange with talented women, create networks, gain access to different cultural and professional environments.

In this time of crisis, women working at home also often have to deal with a greater workload due to the increase in household duties. How can a company guarantee work conditions that foster gender equality whilst protecting work-life balance?

This health crisis is highlighting the inequalities in our societies.

Managers and executives can work remotely but many employees are forced to expose themselves to the virus to go to work. This is notably the case of women who are on the front line dealing with the pandemic (healthcare, cleaning, etc.). With the lockdown and the closing of schools, the added load of teaching children full-time often borne by women on top of the usual domestic chores, regardless of whether they work or not.

While working from home has become a well-established way of working over the past few years at Orange, we have been forced to review our practices, especially the requirement to be physically present at the workplace two days a week.

To support our employees, we have communicated online training courses such as “Working remotely together.” Or “How to work from home”. We have also reminded everyone of their right to log off out of working hours and introduced customised support for people with disabilities. A confidential hotline is also available for Orange employees in France with 24/7 support from independent psychologists, doctors, social workers, and local HR managers if required.

Still regarding the coronavirus crisis, many examples of female leadership are emerging in countries such as Germany, Finland and New Zealand. These female leaders offer an interesting alternative to how power is exercised. In your opinion, what can we learn from them?

These women have handled this health crisis by deploying a strategy without procrastination, with an open mind, determination and empathy. Forward-planning, pragmatism and responsiveness are also key to effective management. They also talked directly to the population without mentioning the word “war” …

I don’t know if we can conclude from this that women handle crises better but more egalitarian societies, focused on the common good and where men and women are in positions of power, work better.

More egalitarian societies, focused on the common good and where men and women are in positions of power, work better.

In your opinion, what will the post-covid-19 world look like?

The health crisis will probably go hand-in-hand with an economic and social crisis. Companies have a social and environmental role to play if we want to avoid rifts in our societies and can no longer operate in a vacuum without caring about potential social inequalities.

That is actually the aim of our mission, i.e. making digital technology accessible to everyone in a responsible way. We can see how the internet and telecommunications networks are essential tools, especially for education, access to healthcare, and to maintain social relationships.

We are currently living in a sort of ‘freeze frame’. It is probably the right time to design a more cohesive and ecologically-viable society.

We are currently living in a sort of ‘freeze frame’.

It is probably the right time to design a more cohesive and ecologically viable society.

Interviewed by Laura Packham

Helping to shape the world of business in Europe, Nathalie Berger has spent the last two decades contributing to the European Commission. In this interview, Nathalie shares with us more about her role in managing the European economy in the face of financial crisis and coronavirus, as well as her thoughts on leadership and the ‘double-glass ceiling’ in the banking industry.

You began your career as a lecturer and freelance consultant for a banking group. What drove you to join the European Commission in 2000 and what has kept you there 20 years on?

Since an early age, I have been very interested in international organisations, peace-making, integration and co-operation. When I was in Strasbourg, I was a very active member of The European Movement. Then I had the opportunity to join the European Commission and thought that it could be the best place for me to make a contribution.

Since then, it has been a fantastic experience! There have always been very interesting and fascinating opportunities, and it has allowed me to go toward what, for me, is a genuine objective in my life: contributing to the European project.

Under your leadership, your team contributes to the work of the Basel Committee on Banking Supervision, ensuring responsibility for the policy implementation of the Basel framework in the European Union. What is your role in contributing to the management of the economy in Europe and what are your key measures of success?

I am in charge of banking regulation and supervision in Europe and we pursue a double objective. The first one is financial stability which you need for the economy’s price. The second is to allow banks to play their societal role, that is which is to contribute to financing the economy, bringing cash and liquidity to industry, Small to Medium Enterprises (SMEs) but also to consumers - to all of us.

When we want to purchase our residence, we need to have a mortgage and for that, we need to be able to count on the support of a bank. We need to ensure the bank is reliable because we give them our deposits. So, we pursue financial stability, as well as growth and competitiveness.

My role is to contribute to shaping the regulatory framework in which banks, credit institutions and investment firms, are active in the European Union. We do this by following very balanced rules that ensure appropriate protection. In 2008, there was a major financial crisis after which we implemented a regulatory framework at a worldwide level. Why did we need to have access to a worldwide level? Because markets are interconnected and consist of an internal dimension (the European Union) and an international dimension.

The global economic landscape is everchanging. How can the European Commission keep pace with the rapid transformation in economies, and manage the systemic risks this poses?

I don’t think that the Commission should “keep pace” but that it should be at the forefront. We should anticipate evolution and movements and create the basis and the context in which businesses can thrive and facilitate.

We should have a very quick response and create conditions that allow others to make the most of the market and of the opening of the market. With this opening and a wider playing field for our companies, in every possible sector, there is risk because everything is inter-connected. When something happens in China, it can have major repercussions in France and across Europe.

So we participate in the international corporation organisations; the Basel Committee on banking supervision, the Financial Stability Board, we work together with the European Banking Authority and the European Central Bank, as well as the Single Supervisory Mechanism, which has been put in place in the Eurozone. We have the opportunity, through these different areas of cooperation, to manage and monitor the evolution of risk to try to design the appropriate response, which is what we are doing now in the context of the coronavirus crisis.

We manage and monitor the evolution of risk to try to design the appropriate response, which is what we are doing now in the context of the coronavirus crisis.

Managing a team effectively requires vision, communication and a number of diverse skills. What is your leadership style and how has it evolved since the beginning of your career?

I have been a manager for about 10 years and the more I accumulate experience in this area, the more I am convinced about working on the basis of trust. I really believe it encourages my colleagues to give the best that they can. I remember the2012 Nobel Lecture by Aung San Suu Kyi on the value of kindness : “Of the sweets of adversity, and let me say that these are not numerous, I have found the sweetest, the most precious of all, is the lesson I learnt on the value of kindness. Every kindness I received, small or big, convinced me that there could never be enough of it in our world. To be kind is to respond with sensitivity and human warmth to the hopes and needs of others. Even the briefest touch of kindness can lighten a heavy heart. Kindness can change the lives of people ».

I try to find the right balance between being kind, demanding and supportive and leading them to excellence. I am extremely lucky because I have a first-class team, so it is an honour and a pleasure to lead them.

My management style is open and inclusive. I always associate with people, I organise brainstorming, I exchange opinions in an open matter but once a decision is taken, there is solidarity and we all stick to it and move forward. I also make sure that when there are successes, people are appropriately rewarded so that their contribution is acknowledged.

I want to empower people; I want to empower people in my team – in the moment and afterwards.

I have been a manager for about 10 years and the more I accumulate experience in this area, the more I am convinced about working on the basis of trust.

While the goal is the realisation of a workplace environment in which men and women equally lead, barriers remain to gender balance. Do you agree women in the banking sector face a “double-class ceiling”? What actions are being implemented to promote gender diversity in this sector?

I must say that I too often find myself the only woman in a meeting. Be it when I am talking about regulation among supervisors, policymakers and regulators or when I meet with industry. There are few women. Generally, when there are women, they will likely be the lobbyists or the coordinators, more rarely for a substantial exchange about the issues. This could mean there is an issue with the complexity of the rules, which makes it perhaps less attractive to women.

There is certainly a double-glass ceiling within banks. The European Banking Authority published a very interesting report about the very low proportion of women on the board of directors in banks. They are looking to implement strong encouragement measures because it is widely known that when you have a more balanced composition, you get better results. This is because women and men often have different ways of thinking, leading and managing and these competencies are very complimentary.

We are starting to see some changes by some groups and companies who are trying to diversify their boards and management teams - all this is very much welcome.

As women, we also need to go the extra step, jump in the hot water, and not to be impressed by the fact that we are facing all these men. Recently, I chaired a meeting with about 20 people present. I was the only woman in the room. When the meeting ended, a man from industry approached me, almost apologetically, highlighting the low number of women and hoping that it was fine for me. I said, “It’s absolutely fine for me – the problem seems to be more on your side”.

I have no problem being surrounded by men but at some stage, it is getting a little embarrassing – so up to the gentlemen to take action!

“I have no problem being surrounded by men but at some stage, however it is sometimes getting a little embarrassing – so take action!”

Studies show that a key component to a company’s success lies in the recognition and promotion of women in leadership roles. How can women leaders be recognized in the workplace, particularly in the banking sector?

The governance of the banks, in the banking sector, is really where a lot of effort should be focused. We should take a look into other areas, too, such as investment banking and trading, where the proportion of women is still limited. This could be because these types of positions involve very extensive hours and a lot of stress. I fully understand that when women have other priorities, they may not want to take on all that. Perhaps, it is up to the bank and managers to think of ways that will attract women to take up these positions. It should be an effort, an investment and an adaptation for the short-term in the direction of long-term benefits.

Proust Questionnaire: What do you consider your greatest achievement?

My wonderful boys, Sidney and Hugo. I am the proud mother of twin boys, aged 17. They are the most wonderful boys on earth and if I have one achievement in this life - it is them!